Interview John Goldberger: Explaining the Phillips HK Rolex Milestone sale in more detail.
Fine WatchesCollector's InsightFine WatchesInterviewsFine WatchesEvents
John Goldberger wears many hats.
He is one of the most legendary collectors. A superb author and scholar. An advisor (he sits on the Phillipswatches board of advisors). A photographer. And he will for the first time be a curator for the dedicated themed sale that Phillips auctions will stage in Hong Kong later in this month in November titled: Rolex Milestones: 38 legendary watches that shaped Rolex history.
I wanted to get some more insight on how the watches were selected for the special Phillips themed sale in HK, how Goldberger sees the current watch market and what he loves within Rolex watches. I hope you enjoy his insight.
Why did you decide to curate a HK sale dedicated to Rolex – why Rolex and why HK?
Goldberger: It was a challenge! Rolex has been responsible for some key innovations in the Swiss watch industry, Rolex’s fame stems largely from its reputation for innovation. Rolex produced the first automatic wristwatches with rotor and it was a pioneer in developing waterproof timepieces, first the Oyster and then the “Tool Watches”.
We chose Hong Kong, as it is an extremely important collector community for watches and also for vintage Rolex.
Tell us how you selected watches for this sale. What criteria did you use?
Goldberger: Easy! Quality, quality, and again quality. Quality in the photos by Fabio Santinelli, quality in the design of the catalogue by Pucci Papaleo and of course quality in the watches we chose. It was a great pleasure to work with the Phillips watches team and I enjoyed the fascinating journey of examining the pieces together.
We selected some truly iconic models that today have their place in watchmaking history.
Was it hard to find nice watches? I hear it is hard to find quality right now in this market.
Goldberger: It was very hard but the entire team achieved the goal that I set from the beginning: “Quality”.
They did a great job, they traced back rare watches through time thanks to painstaking research. There are some missing models like the reference 6541 Milgauss, but it was very hard to find a good example in nice condition.
For me the DNA of Rolex is the Submariner. Does the Submariner feature strongly in your auction?
Goldberger: Yes, the model is well represented in the catalogue, there is the ancestor of the Submariner, the early 6202 Turnograph; there is a nice 6538 with brownish lacquered dial, a rare double reference 6536-6538, an incredible Sea-Dweller sold by Asprey to the Oman Sultanate complete with box and papers and an interesting Milsub 5517.
I heard that each of the 38 lots will come with a special book? Tell us more.
Goldberger: Pucci Papaleo created a well designed package for my book “100 Superlative Rolex Watches” printed in only 38 copies limited edition. Each of the new owners of the 38 watches will receive a special copy of the this book.
Is it the first time you curate a sale for an auction?
Goldberger: Yes, it was a great pleasure for me to curate the selection of the Rolex watches for an Auction house, but the responsibility was heavy, it will be the first and probably the last time. In the future I would like to finish my two next books, “100 Superlative Rolex Watches part II” and “Longines Legendary Watches”.
How do you see Rolex brand in vintage watches at this moment? As strong as Patek?
Goldberger: In many ways I would argue that the brand is stronger because there are more Rolex collectors and more vintage Rolex watches for sale around the world. Vintage Rolex watches have the advantage of appearing modern and contemporary even today (which is not true for many other brands). The design is timeless. In that respect vintage Rolex is like modern and contemporary art. It looks timeless today.
What is your favorite line within vintage Rolex. And why?
Goldberger: My preferred Rolex models are the ‘time only’ watches like the “Ovettone”, DayJust and Day-Date examples from the 50’s manufactured in white gold or platinum (see pictures below). I am so attracted to the beauty and rarity of these simple and precious models with timeless elegance. I find their design, their essential geometry, make these examples one of the most beautiful wristwatches ever designed and engineered.
Having said that I also find the lines of the Oyster case perfect -they express an amazing, powerful balance exactly because they are less redundant. They express the Rolex philosophy perfectly.
When you started collecting 40 years ago, was vintage Rolex this strong as today?
Goldberger: At the end of 70’s the Bubbleback and the Prince models were the most desirable wristwatches for collectors. The high end market was focused only on pocket watches. Only in the beginning of the 80’s, with the first watch auction’s catalogues, did collectors move on to Patek Philippe wristwatches. Patek Philippe would go on to be the king for the next two decades.
The introduction of Internet and particularly the emergence of Ebay in the mid-1990s, profoundly changed the world of watch collecting.Within the last 20 years the community of the watch collectors and dealers became even closer and more interwoven with huge amounts of information exchanged and now readily available due in large to the internet.
The Internet has enabled a significant percentage of the world’s population access to relatively arcane and esoteric information like watches and horology. Due to the discussion forums, then blogs, and now social media, there is a now a large global online audience ready and hungry for any information pertaining to vintage Rolex.
From that perspective Rolex is now today – stronger than ever!
Rolex has moved from being a passion driven by a few adventurous treasure hunters a few years ago to becoming a serious business with collectors affecting the market in ways that are more subtle and far -reaching than merely just price advances of certain rare models.
How do you see the state of the vintage watch market today?
Goldberger: It is my belief that we are still in the very early days of a worldwide understanding and appreciation of mechanical watches. This is just the very beginning. Sure, a watch is an anachronism in this age of ubiquitous cell phones and tablets that display the time. Yet, the old art of horology continues to capture the imagination, the fascination and the money of men around the world. Vintage watches have soared in value in the past decade, as the wealthy put more money into collectibles. If you are lucky, your watch collection can turn into a nice little investment. If you are lucky that is.
Let’s admit it: collectors who buy a watch, even the most beautiful specimen of the kind they love, rarely are going to keep it forever. They don’t buy it to necessarily resell it but know that at anytime going forward – that it has represented a good deal at the time of purchase. When this “business or investment” factor disappears, for many collectors the love will also disappear. So speculation/investment – many times even as virtual mirror in which the buyer wants to see a confirmation of his intelligence and abilities, just to gratify his own ego – and high quality watchmaking market have always gone hand in hand.
No one can predict the future of watch collecting with 100% certainty of course, but a smartly built collection of watches will at least do better than the current interest rates of your savings accounts. Vintage watches have proven to be a reliable investment, even during the last recession. Today world wide connoisseurs pay a premium for watches with never touched dials, un- polished cases, never serviced, original documentation and provenance, it could be a big price gap between an standard model and the same in n.o.s. conditions: double or even triple the value.
What does HK represent for you in terms of vintage Rolex? A bright future?
Goldberger: I do not know the HK market that well but I do think the Phillips Milestone auction will be good test to see the response from collectors and dealers in this fast growing economy.
I heard you are working on your next Rolex 100 superlative watches book. Tell us more.
Goldberger: I am preparing a new different edition of the book with another 100 Superlative watches by Rolex, it will be available on September 2017, ten years later from the first edition.
Is there one vintage Rolex watch you are still dreaming about owning?
Goldberger: The Rolex 6062 sold by Phillips Geneva in 2002. It was an incredible Oyster moon phases with an unique black lacquered diamonds dial from the late Vietnam emperor, Bao Dai (for more on black dial 6062 like the Bao Dai watch see post here). This was a perfect example of beauty, rarity and provenance combined together in one timepiece. A rare watch with great history and provenance gives you an “aura” that you just could not describe (see picture below).
Below some of Goldbergers favourite Rolex models (not included in the HK Phillips milestone sale unless stated).
A beautiful platinum Ref 1831 day-date to be sold in the HK milestone sale of Phillips watches.
A personal favourite of Goldberger – a ‘Ovettone’ in white gold.
A rare white gold ref 6611 day- date that is also among Goldbergers favorite watches.
The elusive Bao Dai 6062 that has escaped Goldberger so far.
Notice the moon phase is black too -which is correct for the black dial model (for more on the black dials 6062 see our in depth report here).
The new book of Goldberger coming out in 2017! 100 superlative Rolex watches Part II.
(Credit: All pictures above John Goldberger).
For a full list of 38 Rolex watches offered by Phillips watches in HK please see the catalogue here.
